SPAMMING in Fighting Games – Why so prevalent in For Honor?

SPAMMING in Fighting Games – Why so prevalent in For Honor?

Hello everyone, Mege here, today with
the first episode ever of Mege Talks I know, the title is nothing fancy, but that’s
basically what this series will be about me talking about concepts, things, stuff, mostly about videogames. And we start off right away with one that
will hit pretty close to home to most For Honor players. That’s right! That dreaded, spamming opponent
who just beat us and makes us SO angry and frustrated,
and we channel then this frustration through our fingers and type, all sorts of obscenities and vulgar comments usually on YouTube or Reddit. but let’s take a little step back, and talk first
about what spamming actually means in the context, mind you, of fighting games. So, spamming in a, again, fighting game context means using the same move, over and over again,
many times throughout a match even, perhaps, in a row. I’ve been a Warden main for more than 2 years now,
so I think I know something about spamming. Yeah, okay… but some of you, might be thinking, maybe those
of you still unfamiliar with fighting games, or the more reasonable of you guys, might be thinking: “Well, what’s the deal with spamming?
Why is it bad? What’s the problem?” “Why do people get so over it?” well, before answering that we need to take
yet another little step back and talk about the concept,
the design, of fighting games themselves. Fighting games, by design, by definition lead to a more competitive and up-front, personal
experience against out opponents which inevitably leads to some sort of
frustration when we actually face defeat. “Why is that?” you may ask. That’s going to be
a longer talk for a different episode. but basically it boils down to the fact that
it’s just us our loses are on us, not our team. So, when you lose against an opponent you want
to shift the fault of your loss on them, not on you “It’s not my fault! They weren’t better than me,
there’s something else at work” might go from cheating, of course that’s
improbable, to say the least but, “They were cheating! They’re using an OP hero!” or, “They’re spamming the same OP move over and over!” Now, why is blaming spamming so common?
Simple answer: During a match you’re focused, and you see
your opponent using the same move, over and over so perhaps you see the Warden using
Shoulder Bash all the time, it hits you you remember about that ’cause it’s a good move,
it’s working and it’s breaking your defense, chipping
down your HP, whatever. The opponent, in reality, might actually be using
a diverse moveset, besides the Shoulder Bash I dunno, light attacks We’re still talking about For Honor as an example,
but this appliets to any fighting game So, For Honor example, light attacks, zone attack,
heavies, guard breaks, I dunno but you still perceive it as if they’re
spamming that move or, let’s say, you might perceive that way ’cause that move is working, that move is strong
so, everytime it hits you it’s memorable in a way, you remember about it. And this leads to frustration,
“It’s because of that move that I lost!” “That move is OP, that move is broken,
Warden shouldn’t be able to spam SB like that” Among the mountain of thousands of angry
comments about spamming, we need to draw a line, to divide in 2 categories. People who complain about spamming because they
don’t have a deep enough knowledge of the game so they don’t actually know, mechanically,
how to counter that spamming, let’s say. And people who have a deep enough knowledge of
the game, they understand the game’s fundamentals
and its mechanics but still complain about opponents spamming attacks and that happens, both people complain, everyone
complains about spamming actually. In the first case, I’m sorry to borrow the obnoxious phrase, but it boils down to a big case of if you’ve gotten the game recently, or maybe you’ve even
played for years, but still don’t really understand the game’s
mechanics, and go and complain about people spamming heavy feints,
I’ve seen that happen people spamming heavy feints, or
people spamming guard breaks well then, I’m sorry, you need to take a step back
and realize that it might be on you. This actually leads to another topic where people
like this are usually the louder ones so they complain, other people join in into the
circlejerking on Reddit or YouTube comments they all complain, everyone complains,
they get validation “Yeah, that character is OP, I knew it,
everyone agrees with me so we’re all right!” and then the loud people get validation and,
it’s pretty bad but yeah, maybe another time we’ll talk about this. Regardless, a little piece of advice: when you go about sharing this kind of opinions,
these kind of rants, let’s say don’t be a ragehead, don’t be negative, don’t go like “The Wu-Lins have ruined For Honor,
fuck the Wu-Lins” “They’re all horrible, and OP, and broken” “Make For Honor great again!” Because that’s going to lead to the
circlejerking we were talking about instead, if you really care about
the game and you want to improve go in a more positive manner, ask for advice “Yo guys, Shaolin kicks my ass”
that’s ok, it can happen “How do you guys deal with Shaolin?” and
one guy might go I mean, maybe there’s still someone popping up
and “Yeah of course he kicks your ass” “400ms lights? That’s OP, Shaolin is OP” “of course, of course” and they circlejerk there but in general this kind of threads start more
positive discussions, so one guy might pop in and be like “Hey, keep your guard top”, for example “because his 400ms light only comes from the top
and is unreactable or “be careful not to dodge all the time when
he is in Chi stance” “because he might go for the undodgeable heavies” but that’s it for the inexperienced people,
let’s now talk about experienced people who understand the game and still
complain about spam. As a little note that I should’ve made in the beginning,
this is still a generalization of course I don’t expect every people to fall in either the first or
second category of people I’m describing This kind of people still perceive spamming as something bad, they still dislike it but for different reasons, they don’t feel it’s unfair they understand the game, they understand that a character, an opponent will choose the optimal move, under clever circumstances and they won’t hold back because “spamming is bad”, but more on this later and to be honest, in a For Honor context, I
usually agree with these people. For example I find a Gladiator spamming zone attacks
extremely dull and boring and bad for the game, overall Why is that? Zone attack is an extremely, on Gladiator, extremely powerful move, probably
his best move still so of course they’re gonna use it a lot the rest of their kit is pretty underwhelming, so they’re sort of shoehorned into using it a lot Do I feel like it’s unfair? In some matchups it might be
too powerful, but that’s not really up to me to share but I still feel like it’s bad for the game it’s boring for the Gladiator player, it’s
boring for the opponent it’s not fun, not interactive,
it’s just bad. But remember, regardless of which of these 2 categories
you feel like you’re into, or maybe none at all, anyway, you don’t blame your opponent it’s not their fault if the game, again, shoehorns you,
leads you into spamming that move, into using that move more than the
rest of your kit it’s the game that has a flaw. The goal of the game is, of course, to beat your opponent and if the best move to beat your opponent is
your zone attack, melee bash, unblockable soft-feint, whatever then, why would you use something else that
is not as effective? or, most of the time in For Honor’s case,
flat out useless? This is the sort of absurd thinking that I’ve
been reading about, people going like “I don’t use SB because SB is cheap and overpowered” So, I play a… bad Warden? and, I enjoy doing so myself, and that’s fine
(referring to my no SB challenges) if you want to do this, I mean, of course you can but don’t get angry when your opponent actually uses
the Warden how it’s supposed to be used to his full potential. I understand people don’t really like sports analogies
when it comes to these things, but I like them, ’cause it’s a competitive enviroment in both cases duels and, in this case, swimming but you can feel free to just break it apart as usual and say it’s a useless analogy because of reasons in the comment section so, swimming competition you feel like using legs is bad and OP, so you just use your hands and of course the other guys win unless you’re extremely more skilled than them,
then I guess you feel some sort of satisfaction the other guys win, and what do you do? do you blame the other guy for using his legs like
he’s supposed to in a swimming competition? or do you maybe blame yourself for your
stubborness of some sorts? (please) What I’m saying is that you can’t blame others for your self-perceived way on how the game should be played based on your own particular reasons. It’s completely idiotic and arrogant to blame an opponent for playing how the game actually allows him to play. Like, if you dislike Conqueror’s shield bash spam so much that it makes your blood boil and makes you type all sort of, again, vulgarities
on social media, whatever then, how can you blame the opponent and not yourself?
Maybe it’s you, maybe the game is not for you if it makes you so angry, then maybe consider changing game or, which I suggest, more likely change your approach to the game,
and understand what I’m saying in this video. But at the same time I’m absolutely not saying
your voice shouldn’t be heard I dislike shield bash spam myself I don’t like how Conqueror’s only viable offense is
a variable timing shield bash that’s it, that’s all he has, I don’t like it, it’s bad, it’s boring, again, like Gladiator’s zone attack. But blame it on the game, not on the player and let your voice be heard in a polite, non violent, non vulgar, non raging way. Mind you, of course there’s exceptions, if you’ve seen my “Mege gets salty” video, it’s pretty old now back when Shugoki could basically, all the time, spam his oni charge, knock you down, unpunishable, get an heavy you should just go watch that video, it’s pretty fun, for you maybe, wasn’t so fun for me. But on to the second part of this video, why spam complaints are so common in the For Honor
fighting game community compared to other fighting game communities,
they’re still there, they’re everywhere but they’re much more prevalent in For Honor So, why is that? There’s 2 reasons mostly first, For Honor was the first fighting game experience for a huge majority of its players For Honor drawed in a huge part of its demographics because of its stunning visuals the game looks amazing and the concept, I mean, knights fighting samurais fighting vikings? I’m in! But the problem with this is that all of these people new to fighting games don’t have an understanding of spamming, let’s say or, more broadly, the mechanics and intricancies (you don’t) of fighting games. But more on that on another episode let’s now talk about the second reason, the biggest reason, the elephant in the room on why For Honor spam complaints are so common compared to other fighting games, but in general, are so widespread just go on Reddit, you can see for yourself. For the sake of this argument I’m going to take a look at 2 other fighting games, but first let’s take a look at the Warden, in For Honor. What does his moveset look like? (I know, I never get the H in “heavy”) So yeah, that’s Warden’s moveset, the one you all know and love or maybe, don’t love but why is it bad? What’s the problem with it? 3, I can identify 3 big problems first, size, length, variety if you will Warden’s moveset is pretty short for a fighting game character, and this applies to most characters in For Honor, mind you that’s not necessarily something that kills the character, but of course, it doesn’t lead to much variety for comparison, let’s take a look at Nightmare’s moveset from Soul Calibur 6 (oh boy) (I had SO much fun doing this) Just slightly longer right? Of course a longer moveset leads to a much more varied playstyle since you have so many more moves to pick from but that’s not it, shorter movesets as I mentioned, can work. The second big glaring issue is shoulder bash being so much stronger than the rest of his kit. Shoulder bash completely overshadows the rest of Warden’s kit why would you use anything else when SB is so good? You can either say and claim that SB is OP or that the rest of his kit is underwhelming, I usually lean on the second part but regardless, anything that goes your way. Again, for comparison, let’s take a look at Ike’s moveset from Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And that’s Ike’s moveset, it’s not super long, still obviously longer than Warden’s and it’s not as varied of course as Nightmare’s from SC but it still works, and why is that? Because most of the moves are good, most of them have their defined use, defined niche sometimes they’re good, you can use them and not feel like you’re gimping yourself using those options of course there’s still a move that is very good, Nair in Ike’s case, but the rest of his kit is not completely overshadowed by it. And now just wait for “Ike just spams Nair” comments. Please if you do, refer back to the beginning of this video. So that’s 2 big reasons on why spamming is so prevalent in For Honor first, moveset variety, as we’ve said. movesets are pretty small, lead themselves to the same moves being used over and over and second, in the little moveset variety, the power balance of the moves is completely whack one or two moves are extremely powerful, the rest
is extremely underwhelming. As I said, there’s a third reason to why I think For Honor’s combat is flawed this has nothing to do with spam actually, but is a big component of other fighting games, and that is movement Movement is super interesting. Movement options are amazing, fun interesting to watch, interesting to use, and fun to play around it’s really super good, and For Honor, sadly, has none of this. (Italians get hype) Again, I can’t stress enough how much movement is king and how much it makes fighting games more interesting and fun instead of just having them boil down to throw attacks and block. Alright, that’s it for this first episode of Mege Talks I hope you enjoyed it, I hope you found it interesting and useful If you did, of course, please do leave a like and more importantly a comment, for 2 reasons first, because I really love comments, it’s probably the best part of being a YouTuber reading all of your comments, even the ones that are completely negative they’re still fun like “Warden is OP, Fucking Warden, OP shoulder bash, remove Warden from the game” that’s funny, I like it, I show my friends this kind of comments, like “look at this guy” or Twitter of course, I always post funny comments like that on Twitter I’m going to make a montage of those eventually I swear. And secondly because the more comments a video has, the more likely it is to pop out in people’s suggested videos You probably know about this already, but I really want this video to be seen by a lot of people since I see all of these comments as mentioned in the beginning so, if you liked it, please, beside a comment, do share this video with your friends, with people that you think might like it. That’s it from me for now, again, hope you enjoyed the video I will see you all next time, and I hope you have a good day.

Danny Hutson

100 thoughts on “SPAMMING in Fighting Games – Why so prevalent in For Honor?

  1. ENG Subtitles available!
    Did you enjoy the first episode of "Mege Talks"? I sure did, although editing it was quite some work! I'll keep doing this (alongside gameplay videos) and I hope you look forward to it.

    If you've got any topic you'd like to see discussed, I'm open to any and all suggestions! Post them here! Have a good day!

  2. Mege is the YouTuber we needed, but not the YouTuber we deserve. Great Video man I’m about to SB it up XD

  3. Only spam I hate is light spam with certain characters, I don’t get mad at games but it does feel cheap when I lose to it
    I don’t mind light attacks as they are essential in opening or interrupting , or a quick punish , but when a character has a dented RB and dust on every other button except the sticks , then I’m not gonna enjoy that fight
    I hate dodge attacks but I don’t care about spamming them results in a parry , the worst offenders were orochis dash back and attack , and Tiandis very fast dash attack and the feintable one
    They would destroy me in 4s but in duels I could learn the enemy and bait it out and punish , which actually made the fight a lot more fun as I had to completely change my game plan
    But when I fight someone with damn near unreactable lights from all directions , and they only rely on those lights , the fight is boring , it’s hard enough to defend let alone punish , the spammers aren’t unbeatable, you beat them by out ranging them or armouring them(not really and option as warden as our only armour takes a few moments to arise by which you’ve already been interrupted )
    So you just out range them and that’s just boring , you just back off and poke , no mix ups , no tricking the opponent , no punishes
    And that’s why I hate light spam not because it’s hard to fight(which it is) but it makes a boring fight

  4. there needs to be a distinction between characters that CAN spam (conq, BP, kensei, HL, etc) because they are characters that despite having a diverse moveset have a spammable move that is just too good to not constantly use, and characters that HAVE TO spam (glad, warden, roach, nuxia) because it is basically all that they have, either literally or due to everything else in their kit being terrible

  5. for honor just feels bad most of the time, especially on console. I still think 1v1 is where this game shines. Other than smash I cant think of any multiple opponent fighting game that are well made and fun, except a few indie games, and theyre almost always 2d. I definitely agree that movement is important and this game lacks it. Its just rolling away, small dashes, and running. Otherwise you just orbit your opponent and wait to throw out safe moves.

  6. To me it has happened the opposite.
    I got bitched on because I DID NOT used Conq Shield Bash during a dominion match. I don't use it because it makes Conq much more enjoyable and satisfying to use.
    I'm a veteran player, and I still bitch about super safe moves, like Warden's SB when used properly and Conq Shield Bash, but I never say that people shouldn't stop use them, it's a pointless thing on all sides.
    This, like Mege says, shouldn't stop us from criticizing how boring some fighting styles are.

  7. I agree with what you say. I’m sort of in between the two opinions on spamming, I don’t like when the game is balanced around the top level of play instead of finding smart ways to balance for everyone. For example the ability to faint light attacks in exchange for none faster than 500ms would be a great trade off, at least to see if it would work. And I’ve been thinking about the fact that all the movesets in For Honor are to short, you mention that even Smash Ultimate has longer movesets that don’t have useless or repetitive moves. I think that For Honor would benefit from a art of battle overhaul that included mores guard and movement directions. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of HEMA but it stands for Historical European Martial Arts. Modern longsword fighting, For Honor needs to look at that and other martial arts as inspiration. There is a lot that they aren’t taking advantage of that would make duels and 4v4s a lot more fun. If anyone would like to discuss this email me at this gmail address and I’d be happy to talk.

  8. I just have a problem with light spam orochi. Everyone else I can react to more or less. I feel like when I get hit by orochi it's because I predicted which direction he would go into so Its basically 50/50 that's what it feels like tbh. An orochi thats predictable is basically dead. Funny how the game has the balls to categories the character under hard. It's sad tho every orochi I come across thinks there immune to everything you can tell because there always so aggressive straight out the gate and don't seem like they focus on defense all that look for is that next light hit. When you get a good orochi it's even harder because they can defend every now and then.

  9. I really love the idea of this, I hope you continue to touch on more important factors in this game. One thing that this video got me thinking about is how the new players see this game, they see it as something that can be jumped right into when it really isn't. The game requires a lot of time and persistence to be enjoyed completely which is where I personally believe the community was lost, a community of people who don't see a way to improve because they would rather circle jerk some dumb, false statement that they believe (like you brought up in the video). I want to stress this to anyone thinking about posting some "SpAam Is dUMb, UbI nErf" post on Reddit, remember when you couldn't counter guard break? Did you see it as something that you could improve and eventually overcome or as something that was OP and needed to be nerfed? There are two types of people in this game, I was always the first one.

  10. I give this video a light 6

    Jokes aside, I appreciate you doing this series. Especially since it's not in a salty manor.

  11. Lmao constructive criticism is now countered by get good. Here's a good argument fuck the wu lin they broke the game and make it more tedious to play like shoalin, he has 400 ms lights which is 5/10 to deal with but can chain it into a three hit combo into qui stance and can dodge heavy either side and cancel the attack to continue a punish of just light spam near unreactable, and it isn't just "shoalin kicks your ass sometimes" it's he has an extra function added that no other character has that's unique to him that in turn gives a unfair advantage in basic techniques like gaurd breaks and feints specifically made to balance the game. But i guess if you die to a glitch or exploit in a game just get good. Like battle field 3 in metro where you can glitch inside the walls and get kills and not take damage well fuck you just get better. I know thats a fps but the argument is just purely just going to make the community more toxic than it already is and shuts down any real argument that can help better the game and improve it and draw in more people. I like everything you said but that one part of your talk has sense where people who have no experience blame the game instead of getting better and people whom have experience would just learn and adapt but then you go on to say that if you lose to just accept defeat and be productive and i agree but you shut down the notion of any independent variables because you yourself have experience and have died to conqs, black priors, shugokis. So they can repeatedly do the same attack and spam but you die with said experience And back on that, they are many issues with characters that do help push an advantage which is designed in all fighting games but when it's over the top and unbalanced to just shrug it off is just unacceptable. But anyway thanks for the good content mege

  12. Hmm i guess ill rant a bit 🙂
    For Honor its amazing game but devs simple take too much time to fix small problems and others not so small
    And making past mistakes ! due lack of ideas i don't really know
    Past example Tian di double light on heavy parry
    Curent one BP recovery front bash
    even if they have strong moves like you perfer SB it can be punished yes its strong but its not unpunishable and ureactable the damage it deals !
    Curent shugo rework put it in a spot where now i see only 5/6 characters in braws and domi
    FH have like what 20+ now ! i guess its great rework if it put him that high up and not totaly "overpowered"
    but for me what i see its new zerker and new concq nothing new to the game overall! my bad 1 new mechanic BP Flip that i see more rarely than PK in the game !
    Here rant a bit 😀 Thanks Great vids GL HF 🙂

  13. Sono d'accordo su tutto quello hai detto tranne sulla parte del movimento, ci sta sicuramente un modo per renderlo migliore ma il problema è che si basa su della fisica realistica (più o meno) e non puoi far saltare i personaggi o cose del genere, e sicuramente migliorabile ma non credo sia un problema principale

  14. Most of the people that play for honor old and new players don’t respect the mind games and the defensive side, which in my opinion is the best part of for honor. Parrying, deflecting, and countering in general is the most skillful part of the game. But most people just want to pick characters with the fastest lights and bash attacks and be 100% on the offensive and spam because they know they are weak on defense when it comes to blocking and parrying. But funny thing if you were to use the same tactics on these types of players it’s clear that they are just terrible at the game because you will destroy them. I have done this many times. Not much else you can do about it.

  15. I don't use shoulderbash because i want to learn the Basics of the Charakter first an THEN i improve my move-set

  16. Completely agree Mege! Looking forward to the rest of this series! 😀 keep up the great work and keep well!

  17. Today i kill a shaolin wiz kensei top light only… he acused me of spaming, but dude, its a easy move to parry/deflect. Dont be salty, if someone just spam learn about it and kick his ass!

  18. I feel like the way ubisoft could fix "spam" is to give "spammy characters" more diverse movesets that give more viable moves so the hero could use more than just a bash or soft feint over and over. (Edit) for example give Warden some decent swordplay but keep his should bash the way it is to allow warden players to have more diverse playstyles. Or give pk a relatively slow unblockable finisher that can be soft feinted into another chain starter to allow peacekeeper players more options rather than just a top bleed stab.

  19. About that "boring for the opponent/you", no. It's not boring, it's frustrating. And frustration is countless times worse than boredom. It kills games mercilessly. Boredom still let's you enjoy the game or at least play it, like grinders and mmos or RPGs. But frustration makes you just want to stop entirely, makes you just mad, just wastes your time and nerves.

  20. yeah dude,

    Ive been playing smash bros Melee for like 5 years now going competetive training everyday and all that shit (If u want a real good fight game learn that one, honestly)
    What can i say? the game developed 15 years. new shit is being found after 15 years, because the movesets and everything are waaaaay more complicated than in FH. so in melee there are also noob killer chars, medium player prefered picks, beginner player prefered picks and also chars that unleash their beasty potential only if a true god touches them. so melee has like 5-7 actually valuable chars maybe like 3-4 chars that can be daaaamn good aswell (dont quote me on the number) BECAUSE the point is at least half of the cast is trash for a true pro without a doubt. after 15 years we know that know.

    theres project M -> smash bros. Brawl MOD, because the new game was true shit some of the community made a mod and in 5 years they made a game with even balanced characters like 25-30 of them. Just some unprofessional nerds in their freetime.

    Lets get to FH: I play now for maybe a year in total have seen various warriors den streams…
    Ubisoft know SSSHHHIIITTT about fighting games, they cant even play their own game at a top lvl (everytime they play I feel really bad for them…) and have therefore no idea whats good for their game…

    i know this will not affect the PC players but since they choose to do no seperate balancing i have to assume they are stupid enough to think that is OK.
    But –console– players will definitely be with me:

    Berserker: he is the impersonification of a problem with FH. guess right or die, no skill no reaction. u have to learn to look into the future to win against a good player. U can block their shit which is pretty fast or try to parry.but then its already lost cuz your feint will not be fast enough if u see his feint and thats basically anopther zerker player saying: yeah im so skillful, cuz i can control u and u were not able to guess right. nice

    Warden: basically that shoulder bash IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS and OP move. You can force all the reactions out of an opponent u want. but its not that bad, because there are with some chars 2 or 3 different guesses that can cope with each stage of the loading/charging or feinting of that move. still: one principle: as warden you will have a nice time, as his opponent, good luck not even letting one milisecond of concentration be missed. The balance of effort in fighting him is not given since reactions can be tooo slow sometimes

    every light spammer (so basically 400 ms lights)
    theres absolutely no skill, u choose a direction and press light attack. your opponent has to guess. well its just a matter of time 😉

    there are not only attacks that unfold in an unreactable time window of 400 ms (on console) but also gameimpacting decisions… the 50:50
    But wait if u truly know what 50:50 means lett me tell u there are even 33:33:33 so your opponent who really thinks he is winning because of skill (haha), will actually give u the chance of having 2 wrong guesses and only 1 right answer so its even more unfair (shugoki, and well yea I know, I can definitely imagine that on PC its no problem)

    BUUUT THINK OF THIS: on console controller input is delayed. you do actually really not play on point but always a little earlier. so if u have an unblockable soft feint ure even fast enough hard feint into GB or even worse punishment and try to fucking focus ur concentraition on that point of time all u want u naturally by law of physics CANT react to that u have to make that dangerous read all the time (and guys melee is the fastest game on this planet so far and there u can make decisions of 1/60 of a second and yea i experienced to actually know what it feels like to do them correctly. so i think i know what im talking about here when I say some characters cannot be played against with reaction it simply doesnt work in FH on console

    so some heroes have more or dangerous guesses like that than others and that sonovabitch deserves an own video which he actually got: YT: Faraam – Vortiger, search something like that and u will have a video how rule breaking this character is.

    and ubisoft just throws out these powers and mechanics without even thinking what they mean.

    That is the reason ppl get salty
    They feel not beaten by an opponent, but by a char.

  21. Also :
    Shaolin kicks my ass, what can i do?
    Well u have to learn how your opponent plays and study him for years because if you know all his choices then u can get ahead of him

    but FH is a game where opponents change really fast and ill never fight the same opponent again that day

    oh well then u just have to take the light spam…

    seriously the Wu Lin are op dont defend them u cant be positive about something you cant learn (impossible reaction)
    dude when u get to know some buddies or u have some rivals then yea i totally agree, you can beat them, but its cuz i know the ppl and get damn brutal reads on them sometimes.

    But with new good players (cause bad ones do all the same, they are no reference here) youre fucked cuz u dont know what happens and u cant react, while those wu lin light spam fuckers can just bait and poke u out.

    especially JJ how can u not call him broken?

  22. I feel like stamina is slowing down the gameplay. Maybe remove it and balance heroes around infinite stamina?

  23. I definitely agree with you Mege on how it seems each character is limited to not only one playstyle but just one move in extreme cases which is unfortunate cuz high level for honor becomes really boring to watch, which in my opinion is part of why there’s basically no competitive scene for this game (relative to other traditional fighting games at least). And i just as much agree that movement not being important enough in the meta also greatly hurts high level play. Dodging takes ten years to recover and feels clunky in general making whiff punishing not a viable strategy (which is sad because its a super fun way to play in fighting games). Also i think something that would be a big game changer but could work is making some moves punishable on block. I know old school wardens zone was but its should be more common to help stop people abusing move and force them to adapt once they been punished. But then again that could make the turtling thing worse which is the last thing this game needs… sigh theres a reason i stopped calling for honor a “fighting game” months ago 😂

  24. So, I get the feeling that I'll write a lot. Here goes:

    Yeah, the "spamming is bad" talk only gets to me when I'm super frustrated in the game (For Honor, because I don't play any other fighting games, currently), for instance when an Orochi keeps getting me out of my moves, even my GBs, just because they're quick as hell. That type of thing gets under my skin pretty fast, but I've become more chill with it the past month.

    I played primarily on PC (still 30 FPS, because my PC is shit), always got pretty heated, but never actually sent hatemail and stuff, because I see it as self-defeating in more ways than one. And then, For Honor was free on PS4 during February. So I got it and it's really interesting to play with new people. They'll find a move that works and stick with it, until it doesn't anymore and they're forced to find new ways of dealing damage. On PC, I was a rep 30 overall and got my ass kicked by rep 1s and 2s that I underestimated. And so, I came to the realization that they were adapting to my vices (I tend to repeat moves that I find, *AHEM*, aestheticly pleasing) and countering me, while I wouldn't do it, because the thought process was "they're new, they don't know shit". I learned that I've been playing the game wrong for almost a year. So, it's like I'm comming from the beginning again, learning mechanics and such.

    What I mean is that the game is a fucking breakthrough and nobody ever made anything like it. Still, it's a fighting game with characters that are perfect counters to one another. So, if a guy keeps spamming SB, as is the example Mege talks about, learn to side dodge it and GB the fucker. bUt ThE TiMmiNGs ArE vArIaBlE aNd HaRd tO PrEdIcT, well, then learn how the move works. Play the Warden and learn his kit. For Honor is a lot of trial and error too. Every spam is counterable

  25. I’m so glad a YouTuber finally touched on this. Thank you Mege. People say I spam shield bash w/conq when I’m not and I’m using the slow bash to wallsplat most of the time, I even had someone say I fullblock spam. People just wanna complain about something is all

  26. And I’m going to listen to a guy that just she makes YouTube channels I got some of vice for you shut the fuck up

  27. it's prevelent because its so easy in for honor. at least in other fighting games, often times spamming one button will just throw a 1 or 2 hit combo with a delay in between. you would need multiple buttons to combo. in FH, all you need is a character with a light chain and mash that light attack button and spin your guard around randomly.

  28. the swimming analogy would apply if every character had the same moveset, but considered that a clear classification in a tier list exists its not really fair… i don't mind SB, but it's a move that constantly forces you to make a correct read on the warden which can still counter you if he knows what is doing. Early dodge beaten by gb, light to interrupt beaten by SBcancel and parry, gb attempt bounces on chargedSB, dodge roll beaten by valiant breakthrough and so on..

    It's okay to have moves like SB in the game but considering the general state of the game (few char have safe offense, stamina management, HP too low for a read based gameplay) i'm not surprised that most of the player base complains about certain moves. However, i agree with your observation related to the fact that some moves are spammed for necessity due to the pretty linear movesets in FH

  29. How to literally win against a high rep. (Console edition) (1 v 1)
    -Choose LB.
    -If you can, parry lights and shout AD MORTEM INUMICUS
    – literally throw heavies at random. Since no one use it, no one knows how to correctly parry it (*taps forehead*)
    – next round Feint like twice, then just use light and maybe, maybe throw a heavy.
    – In the third round ???
    – Profit.

    If you fight a light spammer, ex Orochi, try to learn the patter or force him to use the side dodge attack.


  30. I was playing against a dude that's all he was doing was shield bashing me with BP and shoulder bashing with warden so I had to pull the conq out and shield bashed him every time he tried shield bashing me

  31. I'm gonna keep using Shield Bash until the rest of BP/Conqueror's kit is just as good. Complaining about something that works and is legal being used to win is just another form of "scrub-mentality". I know that you of all people know about scrub mentality being a Nightmare main in Soul Calibur, having had your fair share of…mentally questionable opponents. (People who refuse duck 6.A, or sidestep 6.B/K and keep mashing A/B strings into your Revenge in SC6.)

  32. In For Honor you see spamming of moves that guarantee damage because anything else is highly punishable and ineffective because players can master parrying and countering almost everything. There are few true combos in For Honor, which instead uses chains. What usually gets spammed are bashes that guarantee a light attack, because it creates an opening and also allows follow up damage. Its just people using what actually works most often, if that is a problem, its an issue with the system, not the players for using what works. But it also will make the game stale when only a few moves on heroes are their most effective method of winning a fight, and For Honor heroes do not have extremely deep movesets to begin with, compared to other fighting games.

    For Honor heroes most complained about for spam: Warden, Black Prior since its recent release, Conqueror, Warlord when he was popular…what do they have in common, a bash that is fast, hard to punish, and guarantees a light follow up. People complain about fast light attacks as well, but some heroes have no other option for delivering damage, such as Orochi and 3 out of 4 Wu Lin. This is an issue on how the game is designed.

  33. You're such an inspiration Mege! You're probably the reason why I just started YouTube and playing For Honor!
    For the people who are interested, feel free to check my channel and watch my first YouTube video!

  34. I agree wholeheartedly. Spamming is boring. BUT: you can't get mad at a player for using the most effective tool that works in a situation, regardless of the lack of diversity or depth to the strategy. If you can't get the developer to change it, try a different game. Or, understand that this is going to be commonplace and plan accordingly.

    It's why I tend to veer away from fighting games. I play them, but tend to stick to single player. Online matches usually devolve into spamming, which to me, is really, really boring. But I understand the methodology.

    I unno. If you know what's coming and keep running at it and not enjoying it, that's not a fault of your opponent. Shrug

  35. I personally have never played fighting games besides For Honor other than at a friend’s house, so it’s been hard for me to really understand how this game could be fixed, but watching your vids from other fighting games has really made it easier to understand how other games work to an extent, and just how flawed this game is (not that I don’t still love it).

    For Honor more than any other fighting game is very accessible with its small movesets and semi consistent mechanics, which is a great thing, but it sacrifices longevity because of that. I think this game has set up a great foundation for another with the same base mechanics but expanded offensive options, and has brought a lot of people into the fighting genre that otherwise would never be here.

    That being said, do you think that, theoretically with For Honor, maybe in a sequel instead, we could see that kind of variety in movesets but still keep the accessibility and semi reactionary tone of the game? Is the reactionary approach to a fighting game even a good idea?

  36. As a man who brings the LAW I had to learn very early on to parry and become extraordinarily defensive and reaction heavy. Thank god I had Lawbringer. I'm only a rep 18 LB but all that experience allowed me to just abuse spammers. After the first couple of PK or Roach lights I can just parry and get a fat chunk of punish. I also play with a few friends that like to abuse lights in customs. A good friend and For Honor mentor also helped teach me the fundamentals of the game before he left FH, he was a Warden main before his rework.
    Due to these factors I can quite easily crush spammers and I believe anyone can after they get the hang of timing. 😀

  37. The only spamming I Have issue with are BP sheild bash and shinobi slide. Because they cannot be punished in a single bit
    If someone is spamming something, the best thing to do is react accordingly and punish them for doing so, yet there are absolutely no way to stop these characters from spamming those super safe move and its just not fun anymore.

  38. People who voice opinions and balance changes in this game should be required to post rank,rep score, and time played so their opinions might have credibility

  39. I agree with the context and message of the video.
    On a side note, do you think you can win a duel against Faraam?

  40. All spam is counterable in For Honor. There is no invulnerable strategy in that game. Losing to a sb spamming warden is entirely your fault, sb's worst strength is its ability to be cancelled so late in the move, which triggers a reaction most of the times.

  41. Ormai il principale attaccamento a for honor è dovuto all'estetica e la scelta degli eroi. Però già da tempo mi ha fatto girare così tanto le palle che l'ho lasciato, perché semplicemente un gioco che non mi diverte, non vale il mio tempo.

    Comunque condivido quello che hai detto, in praticamente tutto. Ormai mi è evidente come le mosse, oltre alla pochezza, sono particolarmente sbilanciate (da dannose per se stessi come i side light del kensei o super safe), rendendo il moveset ancora più misero. Mi auguro sempre che col tempo il gioco migliori.

  42. I just wish they went about breaking the defensive meta in a better way that didn’t involve bashes that confirm attacks

  43. Once i was called a full block spamming prick by an orochi that kept using ONLY dodge attacks against my conqueror … i mean, you are 'spamming' yourself, what was i supposed to do, get hit?

  44. I really hope what you're saying "clicks" with at least some people. The community would be all the better!

  45. ciao mege, ultimente sto giocando molto a for honor, e ho portato il centurione a prestigio 7, pensi sia un buon pg? ho provato anche highlander, giustiziere, haramusha e vorrei provare il priore nero, ne vale la pena raccimolare oro per acquistarlo? pendi che sia buono il centurione?

  46. The only problem I have is having somewhat slow reflexes and fighting people with absurdly high latency doesn't help that

  47. looking for people to play for honor ,msg me on ps4,my psn is crazymurdoc1315,no one below 15 ,i dont wna deal with annoying kids or edgy 12 year olds

  48. A soothing voice, i don’t play fighting games because I suck but i do like watching Mr. Mege and his amazing accent and tranquil sounding voice.

  49. My take on spam is that while it isn't inherently 'cheap' or wrong to use, it is a bit boring. I love the mix-up game that is For Honor. You really have to get into the head of your opponent in most instances and to some degree predict what they are going to do. It's wonderful when it works. But when a situation like this occurs..
    fighting Warden, he dodges side, starts SB
    'alright, is he going to charge?'
    'no, okay, hit with two lights, here comes shoulder bash again, is he going to charge?'
    'okay… is he going to'
    'I guess he's just'
    'yes, just gonna SB the whole time without any variation. so fun.'


    Yeah, technically it's viable, and a part of it is working because I'm so annoyed by the fifth SB I'm just watching it happen at this point.
    I just find it boring, especially when fights can be so intense at other times.
    That is to say though, that doesn't mean Warden's SB is broken (maybe not being able to cancel full charge, but can cancel anything up to it, would be a good balance move).

  50. I got called out for shield bashing as BP when I used it 2 times in 3 rounds of 1v1, haha. However, there are times when people lag and spam lights or land "lag grabs" (gb skipping frames resulting in it being uncounterable) as I call them. It gets annoying sometimes. However, I try to stay positive and try not to blame the players for lag.

  51. Reminds me of a match i played against a Shinobi. All he kept doing was trying to guardbreak at range, and I just kept dodging it. I killed him pretty quick. Another Shinobi I went against kept doing that smoke Dodge into the kick, which is easy to dodge. The first round was his, but after that I had the timing down and I will the other rounds. I'm sure they both used other moves as well, but I'm not sure why they kept using moves that didn't work.

  52. I generally agree with "if the game allows you to do something, there's no reason why you shouldn't do it", but when it comes to some particular things, it sometimes feels like nothing can be done to avoid defeat. My focus here is not much on spamming zones, sb's, headbutt and so on, but on attack spamming on characters who happen to have extremely fast attack animations. Just to clear the air, I always try to approach defeat in a positive way and I know that when I lose in FH is 100% my fault, but in some situations I just feel like my opponent is abusing a limit of the platform I'm playing on, PS4 in my case, to get cheap wins. It should also be noted that I'm fairly new to the game, so this whole thing could prove to be completely pointless in a couple months, but I did talk to people much more experienced than me, who also play on my same platform, and they tend to all agree about this. Of course, the game is to be blamed for this, not the players, but still, it is very frustrating and demoralizing to deal with. What do you guys think about this? I'd like to get some insight by more experienced players on this topic.

  53. sorry no just no. There is shit as Chain hit spam that lock you in stagger. AND when you cant do shit about it. its really demoralizing. For example Valkirie hit me with shield and my vision is blurred and then starts hitting lights from same side, hits during that shit i cant block it because my stance is blank of that blur and cant escape because staggered in that loop.

    This shit is spamming. And out right broken because light take so little of stamina that shes got enough of stamina to bash off your whole hp

  54. I'm sorry but I faced a centurion who all he did was wall splat and do his charged punch to stab me I can't counter heartbreak him because I'm trying to dodge away

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