Forward Together Forum – Outdoor Pool

Forward Together Forum – Outdoor Pool


we ready good evening and welcome to
tonight’s forward together forum on the placement of hot springs villages
outdoor pool I’m Stacy Hoover I’m the director of recreation for Hot Springs
Village and joining me tonight we have Dave Gaetti a pool subcommittee and
recreation committee member and a Past Chair of the recreation committee we
have Leslie nalli Hot Springs Village property owners association chief
executive officer and Tom Weiss chair of the Hot Springs Village Board of
Directors the names you see on the screen in front of you represent only
those hot springs village members committee volunteers and staff that have
been involved since the 2017 round tables were held in July there’s this
many or more that have been involved in the outdoor pool discussion since
planning began in 2010 and I’d like to recognize and thank all of them for
their willingness to volunteer and participate in the planning process while the outdoor pool has been
considered by multiple boards and discussed in at least two board retreats
since 2010 the plan represented to the Board of Directors at their February
2019 meeting began its process in December of 2017 at the December 20th
2017 Board of Directors meeting a motion was made to approve funding for the
outdoor pool for a total cost not to exceed $700,000 and to authorize staff
to solicit bids through a request for proposal process deliverables would
include a zero entry sloping to a deeper end in the same location as the existing
pool the motion was unanimously approved and staff solicited proposals for
evaluation and selection after review of the submitted proposals a recommendation
was made to approve a design-build contract with Carruthers construction at
the April 18 2008 een regular meeting of the hot springs village board of
directors a motion was made to approve the project budget not to exceed 1.1 6
million dollars for the design and construction of an outdoor pool with
Carruthers construction to be funded with carryover funds fundraising and
release of escrow funds the motion failed unanimously at the May 16 2008
teen meeting of the Board of Directors a discussion on improving the process to
bring the forward bring forward the outdoor pool project to the Board of
Directors for a vote was held CEO Leslie Nally asked the directors what was
needed for the board to decide on the outdoor pool and each board director
provided their feedback on improving the process board chair Tom Weiss summarized
the directors comments and said the board was in favor of an outdoor pool
but in order to approve the project they needed drawings design and costs upfront
he said he would draft a path forward for the June 2018 board meeting chair
Weiss then presented that path forward for the outdoor pool at the regular
meeting of the Board of Directors on June 20th of 2018 a motion was made to
approve specifications and fun identified in the project summary it
authorized staff to obtain related conceptual in engineering drawings
authorized staff to develop a draft contract with Carruthers construction
that ensures approved features maximum costs and desired terms and conditions
it authorized staff to obtain related ACC approvals as defined in their
Charter and authorized staff to bring final drawings ACC approvals and the
contract before the board at their regularly scheduled meeting following
the completion of the above requested items the motion was unanimously
approved since the June 2018 board authorization and approval staff has
worked with Carruthers construction and Larkin aquatics to develop the pool
plans that meet the features that were originally approved in December of 2017
these plans represent the third revision that were developed based on
topographical and geotechnical surveys of the property to ensure suitable soil
composition and compaction and the best location for construction multiple
meetings were conducted with the acc chair POA project team and the
construction company as well as a plan review with the entire architectural
control committee the outdoor pools subcommittee and the recreation
committee so at the February 20th 2019 meeting of the Board of Directors staff
presented the conceptual and engineering drawings provided a draft contract with
Carruthers construction that ensures approved features maximum costs and
desired terms and conditions and provided information for the steps
necessary to obtain approval by the Arkansas Department of Health and the
hot springs village AR kotecha will Control Committee so we’ve talked about
how we got here now let’s talk about where what the plans include the
features listed here were used to develop the construction plans presented
to the Board of Directors at their February 2019 meeting the plans include
a single structure in a lazy L shape with two thousand nine hundred and
ninety-four square feet a single structure provides for the ability to
have less equipment than the previous three separate tanks included in the
or pool it also reduces chemical maintenance and operation expenses the
bather capacity is a hundred and eighty which is the Arkansas Department of
Health language for the maximum number of people allowed in the water at any
given time the pool is zero entry it has five spray jet bubblers just before the
water line in the zero entry it has an underwater bench for seating and a large
swim area for swim lessons and open play with a depth ranging from three feet to
5 feet six inches while the subcommittee recommended a maximum depth of five foot
six inches after further discussion by the Recreation Committee and eventually
the board of directors it was requested that the plan include a deeper death to
allow for deck diving the plans maximum death is eight foot six inches this plan
does not include nor does it allow for a diving board
we are also planned for accessibility for all not only do we have the zero
entry for easy access we have an ad a access ramp an ad a lift and
strategically placed ladders there’s approximately 5,000 square feet of deck
and lounge space and between shade sails covers and table umbrellas 50% of that
will provide shade options the clubhouse in this plan met all subcommittee
recommendations except for on-site storage which can be accomplished with
off-site POA owned options at the grounds maintenance shop and the DeSoto
recreation Clubhouse there’s a check-in snack bar which was designed to minimize
staffing needs to meet all Arkansas Department of Health Regulations the
snack bar has all required sinks however is not a restaurant it does not have a
grease trap and it does not have a vent a hood instead we can develop a plan
with the DeSoto Club to offer any food full-service food options there are
separate men’s and women’s restrooms with a DA showers as well as three
outdoor showers there are two locker locations conveniently located for
shared used by families and there is space for
tables chairs and loungers as well as open grass seating for blankets and bent
and beach towels around the clubhouse and pool so what’s it going to cost in
terms of ongoing maintenance and operation so we produced three pro
formas for the outdoor pool in each pro forma revenue was based on a variety of
fees with the bulk coming in annual in daily fees total projected revenue is
$60,000 and operational expenses range from seventy-six thousand to one hundred
and nine thousand depending on the desired level of lifeguard staffing all
options include some subsidy with full-time lifeguards being the highest
so the pro forma with no lifeguards staffed only with pool attendants shows
a projected subsidy of fifteen thousand five hundred dollars in the first full
year of operation wages for pool attendants and weekend lifeguards on
Friday Saturday and Sunday project a subsidy of twenty nine
thousand nine hundred necessary to cover maintenance and operation costs annually
and full-time lifeguards are projected to have a subsidy of forty nine thousand
one hundred dollars so while the outdoor pool subcommittee would like to have
full-time lifeguards they recognize the higher subsidy requirements and
recommended weekend lifeguards for staff consideration now I’d like to introduce
Dave Goethe to walk you through the outdoor pools subcommittees process Thank You Stacy
good evening I’m Dave Gaetti a property owner for 20 years a resident for twelve
a member of the Recreation Committee for seven and a half years including a term
as chair of that committee I was an occasional user and I was an occasional
user of the outdoor pool and have always been strongly in favor of a new
replacement pool as a member of the recreation committee I along with the
rest of the committee have gone through a series of ups and downs over the last
well 15 years relating to the pool I’d like to run through the timeline from
original construction the outdoor pool through the creation of the subcommittee
in 2017 the outdoor pool was constructed in 1972 as early as 2006 the five years
to treat her plan identified the DeSoto pool for renovation in 2010 a pool
subcommittee was formed to investigate the construction of a new pool repair
estimates topped half a million dollars in 2011 and the Board of Directors
considered the outdoor pool during this annual spring retreat in 2012 has
reported that the pool walls were leaking and the pump area was in
deteriorating condition the pool obviously had a short life span
remaining and an allocation of 1.2 million dollars was recommended and then
postponed due to financial considerations a year later in 2013 the
outdoor pool project was discussed at the annual Board of Directors retreat
and additional studies were recommended in 2015 the outdoor pool of 43 year old
structure with a life expectancy of 30 years did not pass Arkansas Department
of Health and inspections and was not permitted for operation no replacement
was budgeted and several surveys were done of property owners which showed a
slight overall slightly favorable response for replacement but poor
financial conditions again continued postpone of that replacement a year
later in 2016 the poor ala pool allocation and the budget was moved out
a year due to the tiered assessment and lawsuit appeal then in 2017 the outdoor
pool project was budgeted Town Hall and round table discussions were held and
the outdoor pool subcommittee was formed according to this eleven years after the
first acknowledgment of problems with the pool the outdoor pool subcommittee
was asked to develop a project proposal for a replacement of an out of the
outdoor pool to be presented to the recreation committee
to include shape size features operation dates and times food service
capabilities staffing recommendations and fee structure the subcommittee
members were Anne Bowman Mary McCullough and Doreen centage as community members
step tammy mccullough mary mcnamer and myself as recreation committee members
and stephanie heifer stacey hoover and deb johnson as staff members our
recreation committee chair Donna Albert also attended all the meetings the
subcommittee members met several times in September and October of 2017 we
reviewed the Arkansas Department of Health rules and regulations pertaining
to swimming pools and other related facilities we took trips to view the
outdoor pool facilities at the Hot Springs Country Club and Ferncliff camp
we reviewed past attendance numbers and heard from staff on full operation and
past usage and we investigated best practices for future operation and
utilization to determine features for a replacement pool after reviewing other
pools and our own original pool of 4,000 to 4,500 square foot pool was desired
since we’re looking at budget and Health Department requirements and there was
health requirement the Health Department requirements required a circuit
recirculation system for pools greater than three 2999 square feet you heard
Stacy mentioned before this is two thousand nine hundred ninety four square
feet the committee submitted two options for the recreation committees review a
pool of less than three thousand square feet and another for 4,500 square feet
bids were solicited to provide as many square feet as possible and stay within
the budget allocation the committee reviewed various locations for the pool
and agreed the existing site would be the best choice due to parking and
utilities at the site visibility from the roadway to attract visitors and
location near many rental properties and their guests
including children based on the allocated funds the subcommittee made a
recommendation on the size of the pool we left the shape of the pool up to the
engineer and designers to be based on topographical surveys and geotechnical
report we recommended as few levels as possible going down to the pool and
provided a list of recommended features which stays he reviewed earlier the
subcommittee also identified recommendations for the clubhouse to
include a snack bar we reviewed and then recommend to
staffing levels for lifeguards and provided recommendations on operating
dates times and fees the subcommittee recommendations were provided to the
recreation committee in November of 2017 while their subcommittee and Recreation
Committee preferred a larger pool costs were approaching 2 million dollars for a
larger pool and both and both committees supported the approximately 3,000
square-foot option now rather than wait an indeterminate amount of time for
additional funds to be available to build that larger pool preliminary plans
for I’m sorry construction of the 3,000 square foot pool would also leave open
the possibility for another pool or splash pad in a moral eastery location
when population demand and finances could justify that installation
preliminary plans were presented and reviewed by members of the outdoor pool
subcommittee and Recreation Committee in February of 2019 before they’re
presented to the board of directors at the February 19 the February 9 2009
meeting the subcommittee stated that the project provided the requested
deliverables with the noted differences the stasi mentioned it meets the
features required requested from the roundtable participants it is also an
important amenity for the community and should be approved for replacement now
I’d like to introduce Leslie nalli Hot Springs Village property owners
association chief executive officer all right can we give another hand to
Stacy and Dave they did such a great job and are there members of the recreation
committee and pull subcommittee here if you would stand let us recognize you as
well okay so I want to spend the next 10 minutes or so answering the question why
now when we have all this deferred maintenance to take care of okay so Liz
spoke in the financial forum about our need as a community to define
infrastructure and this project is an example of where opinions of that
definition will significantly differ having been part of the community since
1972 you heard Dave talk about that having been part of the community since
1972 though we believe a pool is infrastructure meaning those basic
components that residents and visitors alike expect to see but don’t take my
word for it let’s hear from one of your neighbors Nicole thank you board members
staff committee members and guests my name is Nicole good I live at 16 snore
wait I want you guys to picture a little girl in pigtails running down the stairs
to the pool this is our first time to have a swim lesson I want you to picture
that same young lady at 12 having a birthday party at the swim deck at the
pool and then I want you to picture her turning into an adult at 17 becoming a
lifeguard and that just sort of pulled these are my memories of what a pool is
like everybody moved here to the village for one reason whether you’re an avid
offer you’re a fisherman you love to play tennis
you love the outdoor nests of this area those are your memories and why you
moved here these are one memory and why I moved here we have talked a lot today
and you’ve heard from several other people why the pool is we talk about
dollars we talk about since we’re some states to give a fantastic presentation
on how we’re going to subsidize this we subsidize other things here in the
village that mean a lot to our community this pool is more than dollars it’s more
than cents it’s a community it’s a place it’s a gathering place
it’s our downtown we don’t talk about the pool in that we talk about those
dollars and cents so my question is where are we going to make memories for
our current future and future beyond now residents it’s also a place of
employment is where I learned responsibility commitment and work ethic
and became the responsible adult that I am today and then it’s also as we talked
about we’re trying to drive people here to the village we’re looking at
marketing tools in tourism and it pulls a fantastic way to do that
yes 1.25 ahead of my notes 1.2 is a lot of money but we’ve come a long way from
the 2 million that we started three or four years ago so I’d like you to
consider that when you’re taking them out ok so Nicole is just one of the six
thousand visits to our pool every year so I have a couple of fun facts for you
how many people would you guess use the pool on any given day like Nicole talked
about during the summer any guesses 13 anybody else 60 60s close so what we
found during the peak usage I think 60 is about an average during peak usage
between 80 and 180 you heard Stacy talk about 180 being the maximum capacity
Stacy did you ever have to turn people away from the pool fourth of July
weekend we had 180 alright so by contrast how many people
would you say on any given day or on on a golf course 75 140 you know what I think you all
just hit some of the ranges there actually between a hundred and two
hundred on any given golf course here’s an example in our new database totally
that we installed a few years ago gives us this detail but as an example on June
22nd last summer there were eleven hundred and ninety nine rounds played
across all of the courses ninety four were played at pots which was the lowest
and a hundred and eighty-one were played on Grenada which was the highest so I
didn’t dig in enough to determine whether any of those were replays or
just you know individual rounds but you get the picture right both the pool and
a golf course have nearly the same usage during the summer so we have data that
shows residents and visitors alike use the pool and we know that visitors
become neighbors so what are those visitors or buyers shopping for according to our CL Co which is a real
estate adviser established in 1967 pools are pretty important so you’re looking
here at a graph from their 2018 housing and community preference survey all
right this is a list of you know twelve or so items across the nation what what
preferences of amenities do people across the nation have trails are on top
golf is the last item let me fill in the gaps for you here so
you see here the orange orange is people noted it was very important green noted
that it was not important excuse me that it was somewhat important orange very
important green somewhat important blue not important everybody have that what’s
interesting about this graph is that there are three
zhan here about pools there is a resort pool line a lap pool line and a
children’s pool line resort pool lap pool children’s pool notice all three of
those are ranked above golf 45% of the people taking this survey ranked golf is
not important now where are my golfers here y’all are going boom right nobody
buys that but this is what this is what the survey said now I’ve given you here
this link and of course all of these slides will be online and I’ve given you
the web link to where you can go and it has a pretty interesting feature in this
survey you see over here you can filter based on age and income range and
whether we’re talking about a master plan community or not
so I some of those filters because I was I was curious well maybe it’s just the
younger people that want to pull nope it was actually both sides
now obviously the young at heart did not vote for the children’s pool we can
understand that right but both the young and the young at heart
rated pools trails and all these other items which one of the items is package
receiving something new we got to check out all right so let’s dive it a little
deeper that’s what just across the nation amenity preferences were what
other master plan communities offer you’re looking here again at our CLC OS
top 50 master plan communities I’ve listed the top three and the bottom
three and that list starting with the villages in Florida going through wire
grant oops sorry going through wire grass ranch which is
a 5,000 acre master-planned community in Florida now our vision for hot springs
village does not necessarily mirror the visions in each of these locations right
I mean we don’t want to be the villages in Florida or you would
already moved there all of us would be there I note them because they all have
outdoor pools not only do they all have outdoor pools but we’re competing with
them now we don’t need you know 50 something pools I think there are
50-plus pools and at the villages we don’t need 50-plus pools but not having
at least one says something about whether we compete so I can hear some of
you saying under your breath but Leslie you’re not listening we want to be a
retirement community all right some all right some of you are saying yes and no
so for those that say but we want to be a retirement community what what do
other retirement communities offer I’ve listed here for you the top 50
retirement communities again the top 3 and the bottom three
this is from 55 places said if anybody ever heard of 55 places calm that is a
location for those seeking age restricted communities okay so we are
specifically looking here at the top three and bottom three of the top 50
again all of these have multiple pools these communities and those on the
previous slide are direct competitors now Nicole talked about a pool being
about memories we call that place making or addressing people’s basic need to
connect with others outside of their home it’s as important as seeing water
come out of the faucet and roads being well-maintained communities like ours
attract people based on all of these so we must talk about infrastructure
differently so back to my original question of why but first some food for
thought it’s gonna get a little deep need you to hang on with me I want you
to ponder this if buyers are only looking for their basic necessities to
be met in a community then a retirement or a master-planned community is not
their best stop based on our massive infrastructure we
were not designed to be that kind of place and we would be challenged to make
each of these decisions if we aren’t clear about the consequences of
understanding what place we are if we’ve decided to begin competing in the any
town USA market the board should vote no on this project and should begin
applying that concept to every future amenity decision but if we’re to fulfill
our Articles of Incorporation purpose to protect value the board should advance
this project do you see now how Liz’s question a couple of months ago about
our need as a community to define infrastructure was a pretty deep
question it’s one we must continually ask and then we must act knowing whether
our vision is to be any town USA or to be the nation’s premier active lifestyle
community when we aren’t clear on that answer or we fail to act accordingly the
decisions get more costly not only in terms of dollars but in terms of peace
in the community so I know some of you are saying yes but why now right anybody
saying that yep hmm yep yeah yes but why now you know
that’s the same question we continually ask ourselves as every project is
analyzed here’s why I support the pool now not only did this staff and the
committee support the project not only does it ensure we compete and what I
believe this community wants to continue being but this plan meets the project
directives given by the board and it meets enterprise goals and it meets
goals that were specifically set for the CEO and so with that I’m gonna turn
things over to our board chairman Tom Weiss can we give them a round of
applause well first of all I’d like to say good
evening to everyone as I said I’m Tom Weiss board chair of your board of
directors and on behalf of your board of directors I would like to thank you too
for coming coming tonight or viewing the forum I would also like to thank Stacey
and Dave and Leslie for making all this possible thank you very much let me
start out by saying that your board is keenly keenly aware that the outdoor
pool project has property owners who are passionately for passionately for the
pool but not now and those who are passionately against ever having an
outdoor pool that’s the situation we face as Stacey pointed out in her
presentation this issue has been around since 2010 and here’s another way to
look at it eight boards and three management teams have struggled to make
a decision in that period of time and that’s wrong we need to make a decision
to move on one way or the other I believe it is most unfortunate
for the village that this issue has not been resolved before now because for
eight years the outdoor pool debate has been an emotional distraction it has
wasted time it has wasted energy and it has wasted money and over the eight
years we have seen the replacement cost if we would decide to do it to increase
so we’re going to get less for the same amount of money all because we wouldn’t
make a decision now every time this issue has come up
the boards have found a reason and I say this in a most respectful way to kick
the can on down the road I believe it is now time for the good of the village to
make a decision up or down on the pool and I will be challenging the board to
do just that at the board march board meeting coming up now as the board
addresses this motion in the board meeting I believe it is important for
all property owners to understand where the board is in the decision-making
process and what the board will actually be voting on in order to do this I think
it would be best to revisit the key decisions already made and some of this
will be repetitive Stacey did a wonderful job of already saying it but
I’m going to re-emphasize some of the points she made but only from the
board’s perspective so let’s start with the board meeting in October of 2017 in
that board meeting the board unanimity unanimously approved the 2018 budget and
they did it upon the following requirements that one membership equity
can’t decline reserves must continue to increase in accordance with established
policy and capital spending must at least be equal to or greater than
depreciation we’ve got to stop D capitalizing the Association we have to
step up and make sure that we at least spend the amount of depreciation every
year so when that was approved the capital projects included the outdoor
pool project now I need to stop here to emphasize a very important
point when the board’s approved the operating budget that means they the
board supports everything in the budget and their approval is a directive – and
an expectation of management to make it happen appreciate it thank you in the
approval of the 2018 budget the board supported the building of an outdoor
pool that decision was made if they hadn’t have supported it the project
should have been voted down at that point and removed from the budget so in
April the board voted on and you heard Stacey say that we defeated a motion for
the outdoor fool because and there were three reasons we couldn’t agree on the
specifications we didn’t support the design and build approach and finally we
had some that felt that the 2018 board should approve the expenditure another
instance of kicking the can on down the road this action raised a serious
question how did we get to this point in the process and not have the board and
management aligned and what is required to gain final authorization for
proceeding on a project that the board had already approved in the budget
process the problem was the board had failed to clearly define for management
upfront what they needed from management in order to authorize proceeding
bottom line the board failed to do its job it really wasn’t a management issue so the new board the current board in
May decided that we would we needed to discuss this problem and we did at the
board meeting and we openly discussed why the 2017 board would fail to approve
a project that they had approved in the budget that didn’t make sense so what
advice could we give the 2018 or what advice could – 2018 board give
management to avoid this situation in the future at that point the board asked
me to come back with a process to move forward so in June the board meeting the
board discussed and unanimously approved a process that they would use to
authorize proceeding with the budget if you go – and this is the excerpt from
the board minutes and Leslie or Stacy did a great job of specifying what we
said we needed to have as a board – and here’s the thing right here for the
board to bring to the board for their final approval it wasn’t about starting all over and
say well now let’s reconsider the decision we are we made the 2017 board
made this was about approving and having the right information to make the call
on whether or not we’re going to continue with the funding of the pool
that we approved now moving on in 2000 and October of last year
the board again unanimously approved the budget based upon the following
requirements membership equity can’t decline reserves must continue in a car
to increase in accordance with policy capital spending will be equal to or
greater than depreciation we can no longer continue to D capital eyes and
capital projects will include the outdoor pool again the board says we
approve and one about door pool or we shouldn’t have approved the budget we
should have removed it only this time there was a difference this time the
approval process was clearly defined and management and the board were aligned
and what had to be done in order to gain final approval for the expenditure and
against AC covered that okay so in March the board will not be making a decision
on whether or not we support considering building an outdoor pool because that
decision has already been made and approved in the 2018 budget what the
board will be doing is ensuring that all the requirements for approval specified
and unanimously approved in the June budget have been or will be met in
accordance with governing documents and state law if they have then the board
should adhere to the process we approved and vote to approve the project spending
if there if the requirements haven’t been made if
the requirements haven’t been or can’t be met then the board should vote to
kill the motion and remove the outdoor pool from the budget and from their
expectations of management as I said in the beginning it is time to stop kicking
the can on down the road it is time for this board to make a
decision up or down on the pool it’s the right thing to do for the good of hot
springs village I’ll turn it back over to you okay thank you Tom here’s what
we’re gonna do tonight we are gonna allow live questions I’m gonna move
actually Stacey’s gonna move the microphone up here we’re gonna spend 30
minutes this time is for questions about the pool okay and so I’m gonna ask I
know that we have some board candidates in the audience I see some moving around
I’m gonna ask that we refrain from campaigning at this time the purpose for
the next few minutes is for you to have your questions answered if time allows
and board candidates want to come up and you’re willing to continue listening to
them then we’ll go from there so miss miss Street I’m going to politely
ask you to move yourself outside of this room if you want to hold a sign and for
those others who are holding signs you may also exit the room this time is for
members to ask questions does anyone have a question that they’d like to come
up and ask okay go ahead I’m Tom Blakeman and back in April 2018 there
was a survey done I think it was part of the stuff you were mentioning earlier
and I’ve got it with me here or parts of it and it says something about if the
larger project were approved how would you suggest we cover the funding and the
majority of the responses some 546 said it should be from fundraising and then in June the meeting that mr. Weese
mentioned there was a presentation done and there were some financial numbers
presented and a small line in there suggests or says that there’s some two
hundred and forty thousand dollars of the cost of this pool that is supposed
to be from fundraising but yet I don’t recall hearing anybody mention that
anywhere and I don’t see it in any document since and I’m just wondering
why we don’t have some fundraising or for that matter if this has been a
problem needing fixing since 2010 why have we not been collecting fundraising
so we’d have the money in the bank to build the pool yeah
that’s that’s a good question I can’t answer what what happened into 2000 and
2010 Stacy what what steps have the has the team taken so far to begin
fundraising so there have been no fundraising efforts to date one of the
things that one of the things that we’ve discussed it both the subcommittee the
staff and the recreation committee level is until there is a project
what are you fundraising for so how much are you fundraising for one of the
things we have discussed is naming rights that will certainly offset any
operational subsidies depending on what level that we go out there are certainly
other opportunities for fundraising opportunities for both lounge seating
and tables and chairs on a smaller scale larger scale when the April and mr.
bleakman I don’t I don’t know where you went okay when in that April pro forma
and in that April recommendation we were short in in funding for the project that
was being presented and proposed by about $700,000 that $700,000 was then
allocated and approved by the board at their October 2018 meeting and and so
now our funding issue only lies in the operation and maintenance the subsidy
that’s required for the operations of it thank you Steve so my voice may not be
very well I want to read a couple of statements that I have copied out of
something it says deferred maintenance is at a breaking point
when developing village excuse me village budgets priority has tended
toward new amenities and facilities rather than fixing old things this is
typical especially when underground infrastructure that is not visible to
people on a daily basis overtime type of deferred maintenance backs up
increased compounding problems at this point the village has a significant
backlog and needs to prioritize repairs high-priority needs include aging
underground infrastructure lift station redundant pumps lift stations over
capacity water main upgrades roadway where
culverts intersections out of compliance with M UTC these standards these things
are all listed in the CMP I’m not a big fan of CMP but there are some true
statements in it and this says talks about what is
necessary to do right now what I found very interesting while ago lastly was
that you try to tell us that the pool is infrastructure the cmp no word list a
pool is being infrastructure I okay I’m sorry I would encourage you and and I am
not I’m one is passionate about the fact that we need a pool not now I would
never set foot inside the pool but I believe we need one I believe a village
needs one but I believe that we have other needs that must be met right now
rather than spending this money on a pool
mr. rusty I completely agree it’s not in there and there’s one reason why it’s
not and both Stacey and Tom went over it that CMP assumed that pool would already
have been built because it had been approved prior to the CMPs completion I
hear that I don’t necessarily agree with it but thank you anyway Robert lessee
Bizzaro Drive I am another one that is for the pool but not now let me start by
saying in your introduction someplace and I don’t have the dates the $700 pool
or seven $700,000 pool pursued Stacey came back and vehemently
proposed to the board that the board the CEO and villagers would not be happy
with that pool and therefore recommended that the $700,000 pool be dismissed okay
that is why we moved further not just because people like mr. besties I was
going to say you might recall the meetings before that were originally as
a recommendation to the board was a 1.2 million dollar pool yes and then when
you went that the board came back and said we would also like investigation of
a cheaper pool no actually what happened was our money’s got escrowed and if you
recall $400,000 of that was diverted to build pickleball instead and so we said
okay we only have $700,000 left of what we originally budgeted for the pool can
we make that work and we asked Stacey to go and attempt to make that work I
remember there’s some people in the audience today who what difference does
that make please let me finish mr. that’s what I
am saying is that it was investigated the cheaper pool do you have a question
mr. Bussie yes my next question that was a statement my
next question to mr. Weiss is what efforts has the board made seeing’s how
the pool situation has been such a controversial and as you say
no decision kicked the can down the road situation what efforts has the board
made for that matter has anybody made to survey the membership to get their
opinion of the pool situation well yeah mr. bleakman first represent
preference to survey to start with but at the end of the day we had round
tables on it too I believe we did a survey several and then we had input
from the committee’s and I believe they are all property owners oh I beg your
pardon most of your committee said staff and most of the staff are property so
the point is this I mean let me just finish we ask management to handle that
to contact the people and involve the people in the input and that was done
was there a vote no I I would like to an explanation then as to how you can say
that the people that participated in the Town Hall or the round table or whatever
you want to call it is a cross-section or gives you the correct idea of what
membership wants you state 600 people that’s 600 out of 13 14 15 thousand
people so mr. Besse mr. Bessie in order well in
answer to your question so we did our roundtable discussions in July of 2017
we didn’t ask for people to come who only supported a pool we didn’t ask for
people to come who didn’t support a pool we didn’t ask what their opinion was one
way or the other what we asked them to do was to come and join us in a
conversation a roundtable and tell us their thoughts on eleven questions so
those eleven questions gauged interest in a pool
it gave engaged their interest in what features a pool would be involved in and
there were a hundred to a hundred and twenty five including online
participants who signed up and said you know what I want my opinion to be heard
you’ve asked for it I want to be involved in the planning process and
I’ll come forth and I’ll give you my ideas we did that over over a two-week
period we had one in the afternoon one in the evening we took all of that
information and we compiled it from that we took a couple of different surveys
that asked you know at what level do you support a pool would you use a pool even
if you wouldn’t personally use a pool do you support having a pool in hot springs
village all of that was done in 2017 and 2018
now we’re 2019 with a plan based on all of that property owner input but it was opened for absolutely
everyone to provide their opinion okay folks okay excuse me just a minute mr.
Bussie excuse me please mr. Goethe would like to share back in
two thousand fifteen or sixteen can’t remember the dates there were two online
surveys done in which which are well publicized for the voice through emails
through all kinds of mailings where we asked the community are the property
owners to respond were they in favor of the pool and what
features they wanted no there was an actual survey unfortunately as usually
happens with surveys most people didn’t respond we had about 2,500 responses a
lot more than 100 that was put here we had two different surveys each from got
about 2,500 responses the overall response was slightly favorable I mean
maybe 52% 48% it wasn’t a landslide in favor of a pool but slightly in favor of
the pool and that that 2500 we’ve done other surveys and that was by far the
largest response we’ve ever gotten from surveys that we asked the community to
the property owners to respond to and we’re still only 2,500 but it was in
both cases positive response from about 2,500 2,500 of our property owners so it
was was asked and you can’t force people unfortunately to respond but we did have
2,500 responses and it was favorable thank you let’s let’s move we have about
10 more minutes so I want to make sure people who have questions have an
opportunity to ask them yes sir I’m Gary carpenter 30 Sancho’s way and
you I’m not for or against the pool but you put up there about 10 or 15 20
different examples of these villages and the Sun City Grand and all the rest of
it but I don’t know what their financial position
and I think that’s something that you would normally would look at if you were
comparing apples to happen thank you yes sir hi Tom I’m going to swing around and
address the people as well as the board there’s a bunch of us just like Tom said
wanna pool don’t want a pool now maybe never wanna pool my point and I’ve
been to several meetings Nancy seen me I’ve been to another meeting last
February and asked that we have a property owners vote on the pool we
definitely deserve that 1.2 million dollars of our money just for the pool
is a lot of money when your infrastructure is basically crumbling
like I said to the lady outside gonna be really nice to have a pool when you
can’t drive on the road because the culverts have crashed yeah excuse me
excuse me there are people that are asking for you all to state your
questions I think we know some support and some don’t okay so if you could help
us out here because we’ve got a line and I’m gonna cut you off when we get to
time so please ask a question I will ask a question having attended the 2018
budget review I was told I was not allowed to ask any questions of the
directors therefore I left the room in the 2019 budget there was even some
directors afterwards raised serious questions about the entire budget
process when I go to a meeting and I hear talk about a 1.2 million pool and
someone tells me I might be staring nine million dollars worth of culverts
only when I sit on a road that estimate 200 grand for seven tenths of a mile to
put in a new water system and a road that hasn’t been touched in 22 years but
more importantly having served in this village in budget operations why have I
not seen a legitimate totally developed no-nonsense
three to five year financial forecast in the last 10 years because it was 2008
years because it was 2010 or eight 2010 that they even talked about a pool in a
five-year forecast I don’t I love the pool I just like to know can we really
afford this thank you mr. Weiss as a board member your primary responsibility
is to protect preserve and maintain our wonderful and beautiful hot springs
village our maintenance issues have become a real problem in concern at the
last POA meeting the culvert repair and replacement came to nine million that we
even know of road repairs and ditches are not being maintained CEO Liz Mathis
was asked to place the maintenance on the budget as a priority to deal with
this problem the response was we will take care of it in the CMP mr. Frank
lemmings chart 2018 shows our debts are out of control
the second pool is another unneeded debt and
ongoing liability that we cannot afford at this time it is true that we do want
a pool but when we can afford it where is your financial and fiduciary
responsibilities to stop adding the debt and make maintenance the first priority well I guess we can have a debate on
maintenance the pool needs maintaining it was not maintained because we D
capitalize the village we spent money on things on expenses or whatever and we we
didn’t stay focused on spending as we should have for over the years we can’t
undo that situation well I’m folks we are where we are for whatever the
reasons having said that you asked a question allow me to answer our debt
situation is we don’t have one we have very little debt for the size of
organization we are the Association we are and you keep talking about debt but
our debt ratios are awesome okay and when we stop and think about it for
whatever reason our equity has stopped declining it had nine years of almost 12
and a half percent decline in equity that has been stopped in the last three
years our reserves have started to build and financially the Association is as in
good a shape as it’s been in years now the point is over the years we’ve
failed to maintain our infrastructure including the pool and someone has to
make priorities on how we’re going to spend that money that we have to spend
and that decision has been made and but to say that we’re in financial trouble
to say we’re in financial difficulties is not true let me let me just want to
make one more comment then why are there so many roads with bumps in them that
the culverts have been replaced and it’s an ongoing continuing thing why is that
why do we ignore that we have lovely beaches that are roped in we have
wonderful windows we’re about to run out of time and I’d like for everyone else
to have an opportunity to ask their question Thank You Sammy McPherson 37
bit of our way in comparing ourselves with the named wonderful retirement
communities another property such as Texas Arizona California and others are
there likewise lakes and beautiful beaches
that have been provided for swimming in these communities thank you for that
great for that question I mean many of them yes some of them have multiple some
of them don’t but but yes ok I’m Laurie Street and I live at 62 are Joan away
and my question is and unfortunately Jason temple I think his left did he
leave can you tell me if he’s here or not
my question is in last week’s I believe it was last week so a week before
Village Voice he indicated that there were hundreds and hundreds of culverts
in his repair we gave an estimate of nine million dollars over a period of
time using the figure from 5,000 to 20,000 so if you just took in the middle
he took a 10,000 middle I took a 7,000 middle we could fix a hundred and
seventy two culverts with 1.2 million dollars I’m not saying never have a pool
I’m saying let’s not have a pool now it’s not the time and for not asking all
of us whether we want to have our roads fixed before we want to have a pool it’s
the same old thing going on so so Laurie thank you for that comment and let me
just say we need to do both and that’s what we’re attempting to balance so
thank you for your comment Marcy hi I’m Marcy of 15th fairway are you guys I’m I
want to make two comments but with which it will be helpful on the timeline I
don’t Dave did you in your timeline did you talk about the DeSoto renovation
because I think some of us don’t remember that we like were kicked down
the road about two years because the pool was part of the DeSoto rehab and
then it was taken out so that that expanded that time also and the fact
that when we talked about when it the pool was taken out of the DeSoto
renovation a dollar amount was put on it then pickleball came took that away want
to give it back it really has been confusing for a lot of people on the
dollars so let’s just say that the difference between my Tom you and I
always discussed when I was on the board was you have been you talk about balance
sheet issues I talked about P&L issues so my question is Oh my question is
number one your questions you have always said we reserve the right to
become smarter at any time and also Robert’s Rules of Order I believe allows
us to revote revisit so because we put something in a budget that does not
necessarily mean that we’re going to approve it or it’s not going to change
later would that be correct the that’s in the budget and that means we’ve set
that priority but once the actual project was on you the problem has been
historically when it comes to a vote the criteria upon which to make that
decision constantly
Changez and you were on the board right yeah you make a decision today and
tomorrow you say oh I know I made that decision tomorrow wait a minute I’m
going to change my mind because I’m gonna think differently now no I said
new information well but the problem is we always change the code we tended to
change the criteria upon which we were going to make the decision so to answer
your question the priorities been set everybody says here the pool we need we
need to be doing something else okay now here’s my question no no no here’s my
question we’ve reserved the right to get smarter can we get everyone in here to
agree on the priorities hmm I here’s the deal everyone in here has a different
view of what’s important and if I ask but when you say not now to spend money
on something else I’d like to know I’d like to know how we get everyone just in
this room to agree on what the priority is I have two I have two suggestions but
here and that’s the point and so it’s going to be difficult okay so I have two
suggestions less in case this would help and I’m asking if you would consider
them number one so that again your balance sheet guy I’m a P&L gal so that
everybody can understand where we are on deferred maintenance as opposed to
members equity etc etc okay could we create an account call an Accounts
Payable or something that represents our expenses on defer our accrue or not
accrued but forward what’s the word for forward thank you projected expenses yes in an Accounts
Payable so we have that Marcy and you might recall you were actually part of
the board that first right you remember that we actually established a reserves
policy that’s what that’s for that is the account that you’re looking for that
should be these services on the balance sheet isn’t it that’s where it belongs
that’s not what I’m talking about but that’s where it belongs I’m talking
about an account as if you owed someone four point five million dollars of
deferred maintenance a liability account yeah that would also be on the balance
sheet okay yeah but it would be on the P&L right yeah that’s not an expense
though remember we follow GAAP accounting so we wouldn’t stick that on
on the on the income statement all right my last question then is on make it
apparent but my last question is I’ve been working on something with the
school districts the counties and a developer would you be able to kick the
can down the road for 90 days or less if I believed that there would be a bigger
better fuller development like a water park with a skate park and a pool at
little to no cost of the village if you can wait a couple months I think we I
think we have already decided we keep kicking the can down the road and we
can’t keep hoping that somebody else is going to save us from that but I never
said I was gonna save you but the first time I’ve been able to get I love to
talk to you more about that but I think we’re past that point
okay thanks Marcy that’s all right yes ma’am hi there my name is anne-marie
Dixon McMichael I excuse me there’s someone at the microphone thank you by
the way in my community when we have public hearings we give a four minute
limit to people so you all aren’t put an awkward situation but anyway I have
about one and a half minutes and it ends with the question okay
and my name is anne-marie Dixon McMichael I’m the daughter of Buddy and
Martha Dixon I’m from Houston my paper I have family cards my parents I mean my
kids and I all have parent family cards but I’m not a property owner I happen to
be here visiting my parents this week and so I can only address my personal
experience 22 years ago my parents moved to Hot Springs Village from Texas we
affectionately call their home campy me piney
we have monogrammed hats shirts and the whole nine yards
I now have two adult children a 26 year old son who’s a trial attorney in
Houston and a 22 year old daughter who will graduate from college and begin her
career this summer so why am i mentioning my kids my kids have grown up
coming to camp peeny Pawnee in 1997 we had our first inaugural two-week stay at
camp beanie bunny we spent numerous hours in the pool at the DeSoto
recreational facility playing putt-putt golf they used to have day camps there
and numerous July 4th celebrations on the patio watching the fireworks after a
long day in the pool I’m actively involved on the Planning and Zoning
Commission in my community I’ve done it for more than 25 years so I get exactly
which all are going through people are passionate about their issues and thank
goodness for this community that you do have people that are so passionate it
means you care the one thing I do want to say though is please remember that
the people in this room they were your neighbors yesterday they’re gonna be
your neighbors tomorrow your elected officials are also your neighbors and
they serve your community for no pay now they willingly put their names in the
ring I say that but just choose your words carefully ask questions ask hard
questions it’s okay to ask questions that make them uncomfortable but
remember this is your community and everything about it should be to unite
not to divide one another it’s very hard it’s very hard serving in leadership
I’ve been on divisive issues very before before there was a slide up there with
probably 60 names of volunteers of people that have served on this process
for years thank them this has not been hard whatever side it is so here’s my
question and this is I really am only asking questions so I’m following the
rules but the one question I had because my son is an attorney regarding your
lifeguard situation there was an operational deficit whether it be no
lifeguards part-time lifeguards weekends whatever and full-time lifeguards when
evaluating that cost have you evaluated that cost of no lifeguards or part-time
lifeguards in regards to probably higher insurance premiums you’re gonna have to
pay by not having lifeguards and the cost that could be associated from a
lawsuit of not having lifeguards my son is a defense attorney specifically in
the insurance business and I hear his stories all the time so that is a
question Leslie you can answer a very good
question and yes we have evaluated the risks and costs on both sides of that
equation what our insurance rates would be versus what our payroll costs would
be versus what other communities are doing and you’re absolutely right that’s
a big decision and that’s why we that’s fine that’s why I say no thank you
passionate ask hard questions but remember neighbors y’all are neighbors
thank you thank you very much okay now two people are up here and one
has been up before I want to make sure this is gonna be the last question
unless someone else Tom you’ll be the last question unless there’s anyone else
all right wait can we agree on that okay go ahead
Curt yeah so you’ve spent $50,000 so far on this design project we actually haven’t spent a penny on it
it’s part of the contract that the board is considering so all of the design work
and the planning work has been done by the contractor in the engineer with a
goal of signing a contract to purchase the plan
and then for the construction oh so if you don’t go ahead with the contract and
he doesn’t get anything there is there’s no contract that’s been signed as a as a
so how far are we into this isn’t it fifty thousand no there’s been no dollar
amount assigned to it the only things that we have paid for we we demoed how
much was the demo and we did it in house but fourteen thousand fourteen thousand
dollars so we demo the Oh pool which would be part of what we wouldn’t need
to do anyway and also just for safety reasons we didn’t need that sitting open
and we did what do you call the surveys we paid for the topic of the
topographical survey the geotechnical surveys we also paid for a survey of the
property so those are the only funds that we’ve expended okay so you’re not
into this design by that much no that’s good to know because I was
just thinking that you know a lot of people moved here because of the pool
that was here and do you realize it was designed by phage owns and the bath
house just like the DeSoto Club do you did you all were you’re aware that okay
and so in order for it to be a replacement now is there a replacement
or is this a new expenditure we had a pool before we’ll have a pool again
we’ll have a smaller pool so I’ll let you decide what your definition is to me
we’re replacing an amenity that was here we’re not replacing it exactly as it was
for the reason like Dave mentioned when we looked at it it was going to
significantly increase it almost double two-and-a-half times
the amount of money that was needed so we made the choice to build the 2999
square-foot pool instead of the bigger pool yes it was about five five just
ever go ahead with zero curtain the original pool was actually three pools
we had a pool a swing pool right diving pool and we had a kids full right
the total was well over five thousand square feet the main the main part the
it was not a DA accessible at all so we had to have to redesign it for that the
three pools the three tanks would cost a lot more money in the way of separate
pumping systems requirement as well as additional operation maintenance cost
the requirement that the Department of Health now has of a recirculation system
for any pool that’s more than three thousand square feet would add about 50
percent to the cost of the pool so it was a lot more expensive the design the
original design was was great except we don’t they don’t build pools the way
they’d built them 50 years ago part of the reason for the leakages in the pool
was the cinder block the walls were made of cinder blocks which with the moving
of the soil eventually collapsed then the water because the pitchers I’ve seen
it’s solid concrete reinforced with rebar yeah we actually removed them so
okay Thank You Kurt question asked my question yet well I thought you just
asked a couple okay you wrap it up so a vote would be thirty thousand you think
to put this up are you talking about a membership vote yes they generally
average about forty thousand dollars okay so to me that would be worth it
okay thank you for your comment okay hello again Tom Blakeman facility or tez golf course
let me just say I am very much in favor of the village having a nice outdoor
pool but just not now my question I actually have to I guess first question
is and I’m not clear maybe I missed it are we financing the pool in some way or
are we paying cash cash okay I believe I heard earlier that we have a wonderful
debt ratio or whatever the terminology was better than many similar sized
organizations and maybe this sounds like a dumb question but I’d really like it
answered why don’t we just finance some of this culvert repair and get it out of
the way you know what Tom you and I are on the on the same page about that as a
matter of fact and Liz as well we’ve been talking about that but I want to
make a point about the culvert repair mr. temple was asked and was pressed to
pull a number out of the air there has been no there has been no defined nine
million dollar number okay so I think to some degree we’ve gotten stuck with
something that was written in the paper and I don’t remember exactly how the
number came to be about but I think if you’ll go back and review the tape
you’ll see Jason attempted it always to continue to say we don’t know exactly
what we’re what we’re facing before we didn’t even know how many culverts we
had we should have already known that but we didn’t but that’s okay so so we
don’t know exactly the number but when we do know the number and when we do
have a clear picture and I believe it’s June are we supposed to come back later
this later this year and give the board a complete picture of that when we have
a complete picture I think you’re absolutely right
the prudent thing to do is is to issue debt get debt get that taken care of of
course we need to do it in a prudent manner so we’re on the same
page on that so does that mean then that when we go about replacing or rebuilding
the Balboa Golf Course which has also been on the books for a long long long
time and the golf cart paths there you can barely write a card on them are we
going to finance that are we going to pay cash for that how is this going to
work depend on the budget at the time roughly
I think you probably heard Liz talk about each year our operations yield
between four and five million dollars to to address capital that’s what we should
be spending that money on between between putting some in reserves and
addressing capital so any project that we identify as a priority that goes
above that four million dollars of cash that we yield we need to look at whether
or not debt makes sense okay thank you thank you okay last question yes sir
this one’s for Stacey Stacey have we had a handshake agreement with the pool
contractor since March of 2018 David you’re gonna have to define what you
call a handshake agreement because to me the answer is no but I don’t know what
your definition of that is okay well I called the contractor up Friday he said
that he had a con he had a handshake agreement with the POA and he mentioned
your name going forward on the pool project okay so I can tell you in all of
my communications with the contractor both for the design of the pool and the
the contract for the pool that we have signed no agreements he has certainly
worked with us on every level down to the third revision which is what we’re
out on the pool as well as costing for us things that staff have identified as
our necessities but aren’t part of the original contract and that was part of
the presentation that was made to the board yeah asking me if I’ve committed
funds for the POA I’m not able to do that above my spending level which is
$5,000 David can you share with us who specifically you spoke to No
PS not be transparent here transfer I’m gonna be transparent to his his feeling
is that he’s entered a verbal contract with the POA and that’s his opinion Evan
and he’s one of the three people that have signed the drawing okay I want to
thank you all for your time today I’m sorry okay wait one one more one I
have time for one one more I’m sorry sure yep it’s my understanding that
every year we get to vote for members of the board and that in doing that we give
you the authority to make good decisions for our board and I don’t care whether
it’s for golf courses for pickleball for a pool or whatever but once we’ve made
that vote and put you on the board I believe that your responsibilities do
the best thing for us and that includes keeping up our amenities and our
infrastructure and we need to trust you to do the best for us because we’re not
willing to spend the time that you are to go out and do that thank you okay
thank you thank you all for coming

Danny Hutson

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