Crouch Spamming does NOT break the Hitbox! – Rainbow Six Siege

Crouch Spamming does NOT break the Hitbox! – Rainbow Six Siege


What’s up guys, Rogue-9 here and today I
want to talk a little bit about crouch spam in Rainbow Six Siege and some experiments
I have been conducting on this topic. After drop-shotting was nerfed, it was only
a matter of time before a new gunfight META emerged and the next best thing to flopping
around the map like a pro soccer player was of course crouching up and down
like a whack-a-mole doll on steroids. Crouch spamming is in the game and it works,
so it’s understandable that we see this tactic more and more but is
there actually a problem with it? Does it just make you harder to hit or will
it go beyond that and also break your hitbox? Let’s go and find out! Now let me get a few fundamentals out of the way first. Movement speed in Rainbow Six varies by armour
class but this only goes for the speed at which you move around the map. Crouching, proning and leaning speed is exactly
the same for all three armour classes and of course the same goes for shield carriers. So that means that tactics like crouch spamming
can be used by all operators equally! You can crouch spam! You can crouch spam! And even you can crouch spam! Hurray! Another fundamental fact that makes crouch
spamming viable is how little it affects the first person perspective. Yes, the camera perspective changes when we
crouch, prone or lean in Rainbow Six but from the first person perspective, the change is
quite subtle and with the exception of going prone, you can stay perfectly aimed down sight
during all of these manoeuvres. The third person character model on the other
hand can move around quite significantly during these same transitions. Look at that, they even switch around to a
left handed grip on their guns when leaning left! And when crouching, the operator’s head
not only moves up and down but also quite a bit from side to side. This discrepancy between how movement affects
the first person and third perspective is at least part of the reason that makes changing
stances so affective in gunfights. Even without taking hitbox problems into consideration,
you can already make yourself a much harder target to hit, basically without incurring
any penalty at all in terms of your ability to aim and hit your own targets. And can we at this stage just quickly admire
how amazing the animation is for leaning left and right while crouched? This is literally like some kind of magic trick! How is he doing that?! Invisible strings? Some kind of support construction
worn underneath the trousers? Whatever the case, this is almost as good as raptor
legs and I do hope that it will stay in the game. In fact, I’m going to make a prediction that this could well be the hottest new gunfight tactic in 2019. Imagine backing around a corner like this! Any opponent who is attacked in this way will
almost certainly die laughing before being able to fire a single shot. But I digress; crouch spamming is the issue
and now that we have confirmed that everyone can crouch spam equally well, it’s important
try to find out if this tactic is just annoying and makes you harder to hit or if it actually
messes with your hitbox in some way because that would be a truly unfair advantage that
needs to be removed from the game ASAP. And let’s be clear, there used be a bug
that made you invincible while crouch spamming. Earlier on in the year, the Operation Chimera patch notes specifically mentioned that this had been fixed. The question is, is this still a thing? And beyond that, there are a couple of other specific myths around crouch spamming that I want to test. One is that the hitbox completely desyncs
from the character model. I.e. that as soon as you hit crouch, the hitbox
switches to the crouch position, while the visual model still needs to move down. The other myth is that during the crouch animation,
the characters arms are more likely to block headshots. One way I thought of attempting to measure
the hitbox as accurately as possible was to aim at a teammate and watch for the hip fire
reticule to change colour. As you can see here… I’m sorry can you not do that while we’re recording here? Thank you. As you can see here, whenever my reticule
crosses over the hitbox of Ash, it turns green although clothing items, including the top
of the hat, are not part of the hitbox. Back in the early days of Siege, clothing
used to be part of the hitbox which was especially annoying when you were playing as one of the German operators, with their big old ear defender helmets. But that’s no longer a thing (thank goodness). Now if we get Ash to crouch up and down a
little bit, the first thing that becomes apparent is how much the target’s head moves left
and right during this motion. I had to adjust my aim to the right several
times before I could reliable catch the top of the head as it was coming up. But once this adjustment is made and we examine
the footage frame by frame, we can see that the reticule pretty consistently changes colour
on the exact frame that Ash crosses over it while moving up or down. There were a couple of cases where I would
normally expect a hit but the colour did not change: like here when aiming at her shoulder or here when quite clearly aiming at the on the top of the head. Now maybe this could be explained with the
clothing not being included in the hitbox or maybe there is a small amount of desync. In fact here: this to me should not be a headshot
but it still is and that proves that there is a bit of a problem with the hitbox and character model while going through the crouch animation. Now is this because the hitbox moves differently
compared to the model or is this may be tied lag because of playing a game online? Well, I also conducted this exact test in
a local custom game where both players had listed ping of 1ms and even here,
the phenomenon was present. This should not be a headshot but it still
is and this is in a LAN environment. So wait… that’s it confirmed! Crouch spam DOES break the hitbox after all!!! Well yes, it does appear that the hitbox moves slightly differently to the player model by a centimetre here or there. But let’s be real here; even at very close
ranges, we’re really talking about a few pixels… the rumour was that the hitbox insta
switches when crouching while the 3rd person model goes through an animation and that is
definitely not the case and for me personally, the minor deviations of the hitbox while crouching
are really not enough to have any consistent gameplay impact and because of that: my conclusion
would be that crouch spamming does not affect the hitboxes. Certainly not in any meaningful way. Of course the other concern that I have seen
people mention is that crouching makes it more likely that your opponent’s arms will
block head shots. But as we have been able to observe from all
of the footage so far, there is really nothing in the animation that moves the arms in front
of the face at any time. Could there be certain angles where the arms
block head shots? Sure, absolutely! But I don’t think that this is tied to crouch
spamming in any way. As one final confirmation, I also tried to
test the hitboxes with actual shots fired. But as you can imagine, timing shots perfectly
to land a few pixels away from a target during a pretty speedy animation was
a minor nightmare to deal with. I ran lots and lots of trials and most of
the time I ended up either missing by a mile or getting an unintentional headshot. Still, I did manage to get a couple of decently
close shots and they pretty much confirmed what the reticule colour test has already
told us: The hitboxes remain pretty damn accurate. Now full disclosure: every participant in
my experiments was on a pretty good internet connection and all of us has pings between
9 and 16ms at all times throughout these tests, so my conclusions do not take any network
issues into account that you or your opponents may be experiencing in any given game. But at the end of the day, even if you are
playing against someone with a high ping and their character model in your instance of
the game is lagging quite a bit behind where they are in their own game, when it comes
to landing shots what counts firsts and foremost is what you are shooting at. Yes there will be peeker’s advantage. Yes they might kill you behind cover and you them. But what counts most in terms of lading your
shots is what the server shows you in terms of target positioning and if you land your shots in your instance of the game, the hits are still counted. So after all that, what are my thoughts on
crouch spamming? The speed with which Rainbow Six Siege Operators
crouch spam is absolutely super human, there’s no doubt about that. And in a game that is based on real life,
I feel that impossible physical movements should be kept to a minimum. But when it comes to the question of crouch
spamming giving players an unfair advantage, my conclusion would be that this is not the case. I tested the effect on hitboxes to the best
of my ability and as far as I can tell, there is very little unfair impact. Your hitbox is not broken when you crouch;
you just literally become a harder target to hit. Is it annoying? Yes. Unnatural? Yes Unfair? Not as far as I can see. I understand that there is a balance to be
struck between making a fast paced, fun game and making the game realistic and I do feel
that movement needs to feel good and be fun. But irrespective of the hitbox breaking or
not, being able to crouch repeatedly at high speed with pretty much no penalty to your ability to aim is a problem (in my humblest of opinions). It’s completely unnatural and silly and
for that reason I believe crouching needs to be nerfed in some way. Ubisoft could make it harder to aim while
changing stances or they could change the speed at which the animation takes place. Changing stance could even temporarily affect
the speed at which you can move forward or sideways. This would be completely realistic and when
someone starts crouch spamming around a corner, slowing down their strafing speed would
actually put them at a disadvantage. But those are just a couple of ideas off the top of my head and not really the point of this video. The objective was to test whether crouch spam
gives you an unfair advantage and as far as I can see, that is not the case. But what are your thoughts on crouch spam? Do you want it to stay or do you want it nerfed? Let me know in the comments section below! And while you’re down there, go ahead and
leave a like if (you know) you liked the video. And with that as always, thanks for watching;
I hope you enjoyed the video and I will see you in the next episode!

Danny Hutson

45 thoughts on “Crouch Spamming does NOT break the Hitbox! – Rainbow Six Siege

  1. I have made a second video addressing the additional questions raised by the community! Check it out here: https://youtu.be/FoLXUs46uWY

  2. Just 1 question dude….when is the next die hard coming out you ever going to get back at bruce willis for spoiling your fort knox heist ? xD haha

  3. We can blame a good amount of this toxic behaviour on Noted. He was the frontman in showing and making it popular to spamlean and the spaz movements. Whilst playing against low ranks

  4. I think anyone would rather dropshotting, though if they're bad at it (I don't think most people have that skill, especially on console where I play) you'll basically just kill youself

  5. No one does it in copper or casual so I don't know much about it accept it makes u a super easy target to find and kill (if they can't aim or react that is)

  6. "Now if we get Ash to crouch up and down a little bit, the first thing that becomes apparent is that my peepee is super hard" -Rogue9

  7. I think you should be able to crouch spam while not aiming in, but when you’re aiming down sights there should be a fatigue system. Could you imagine not being able to t bag to your teammates

  8. Crouch spamming should stay in the game. It’s not that hard to counter. It’s an in game mechanic so keep it that way. We should create a boycott on seige if they nerf it. Ubi is stupid honestly. Lean spamming is fine to, stop trying to change these things ubi. Its NOT necessary

  9. Why can't we all just play the game?

    Every five minutes there's word of a new exploit that everyone starts spamming regardless if it actually works

    Stop

  10. Generally enjoy your videos but this is a crock.
    There’s no way that on console this isn’t a hit box advantage.

  11. But why shouldn't it break the hitbox? IRL crouching makes you a smaller target, if people don't like it and think it's cheap then maybe they should do it too or if it makes you that mad, just don't play the game. Stop whining about every little thing needs nerfed.

  12. Crouch spamming requires finger dexterity and hand eye coordination which bad players don’t have… lol git gud plebs

  13. Eh way too many boomers in the comment sections asking for a "takeeel experience" we're in a new generation of gaming now, games need to be fasted paced and reward players for aggression which ofc cater games for aggression. Plus this game isn't that realistic lul it's still a game at the end of the day. Look I play in the Plat 1 – Diamond ranged, I see this sometimes but I honestly think that there are other problems going on in the game than just this.

    We really need another Operation Health for an optimization patch I mean what, this game is over 60gbs now? We still have some dozens or more issues with the replays, the death cam and other glitches/bugs which appeared again from like… season 4 reinforcements. Those need to be highlighted more than just "lul crouch spamming nerd".

    Oh and for the uninitiated, OverWatch and BF1 do have a couch spamming reduction but it's not as significant. OWs was done during season 2, BF1's was like during a CTE test.

  14. Forget crouch spam remove handgun spamming. People online are using deagles like smg 11s out there with almost no recoil on almost every pistol thanks to the animation patch. Blitz mains really tick me off for this reason

  15. An easy fix to the crouch spamming is simply to do the same they did with dropshot. While you're doing the crouching animation, your aim is not 100% accurate.

  16. bruh im the one that made crouch spamming for people i wasnt an owner crouch spam i went to ps4 and did it for 18 hours everyday spqming the button i hit faster than somebody hitting all the buttons and everybod just started doing it my friends when i do it

  17. I want to ask you a question on quick leaning: What is your opinion on it? Do you believe quick leaning is a bug, (from an animation standpoint)? And how do think they could change it? (ex. having the shooter stop firing while in the animation, removing the animation to make it a feature, etc..)

  18. It doesn't give you an unfrair advantage in the sense of breaking the hitbox BUT it does give you an unfair advantage as it hardly impedes the crouchers aim whereas the guy standing still has to adjust quite drastically.

  19. Nerf Crouch spamming. I have the perfect way to Nerf Crouch spamming, disable the ability to aim down sights while crouching, or getting up from Crouching ,or going prone.

  20. Man I miss this. Now I feel so slow. But I never crouch lean spammed only controlled crouch and leaning

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